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greeting citizens and welcome to fun no

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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I'm Jason McClellan thanks for hanging

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out with me Shane hurt and Ryan Sprague

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are also on the show today and today's

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episode is one of our casual

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conversational episodes we like to call

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UFO happy hour

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[Music]

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all right before we start I want to make

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it clear that on our UFO happy hour

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episodes these are simply fun

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conversations where we discussed various

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topics and share our personal opinions

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meaning that these episodes are not our

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typical objective journalistic reporting

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and storytelling these are casual raw

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informal discussions where we share our

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opinions so having said that let's get

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this party started

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Ryan good to see you buddy what are you

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drinking today informal is the perfect

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word man this is gonna be fun I'm

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drinking I'm actually on the island of

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Oahu right now I had to escape New York

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it's going crazy so I went to a brewery

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recently called beer lab here on the

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island and it's become one of my

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favorite breweries ever and they always

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do really interesting beers and they're

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mixing you know fruits with them guava

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beers and breadfruit beer like the

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weirdest stuff you can think of but

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right now they're actually featuring a

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bunch of sort of cosmic brews and the

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one I'm drinking is called the solar

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system golden ale and it's delicious

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amber ale it's got a little little bite

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to it it's nice and sweet and like I

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said there they're killing it with their

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space themed beers right now so I'm a

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big fan the name alone sounds amazing

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the name alone and I just realized it's

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12% so whoa forgive me gentlemen

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a little sassy those are my favorite

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breweries too I love the breweries that

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are all about experimentation and

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they're always like just throw in all

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sorts of different stuff in there let's

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see what this tastes like

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and coming up with these crazy

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concoctions I love that Shane how about

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you buddy what are you drinking

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well you guys know I'm a big bourbon guy

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and I normally drink bourbon but today

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since it's like 175 degrees here and

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think up next I am drinking the soda pop

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of beers I am drinking a Bud Light Lime

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with I just had chips and salsa so

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that's very good

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and I'm rolling with that that's perfect

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yes and I'm not not not a Bud Light fan

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for sure but you know what when it is a

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hundred and seventy five like it is pure

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Shane I'm in Phoenix with you buddy

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I agree those are perfect on on hot days

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and great with chips it's also like you

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said and I'm in the same boat as you

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Shane I wanted to do like an

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old-fashioned or some great bourbon

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cocktail for today but it's so damn hot

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here I just went with a Corona so

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drinking a corona to the right as usual

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yeah there's a joke in there right now

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just waiting to be had oh well I have a

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couple topics I'd like to hit today and

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I guess we'll start with one that's been

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the subject of renewed discussion and

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debate and that's the question of

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whether UFOs should be considered a

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threat now on the last episode of

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unknown I kind of talked about that a

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bit and my thoughts on that and kind of

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the a little bit of history where that

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comes into play where where the military

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the US government has offered opinions

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about that you know certainly with

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official UFO investigations we've we've

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seen those sort of closed and shutdown

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and finalized because it was determined

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that UFOs don't pose a threat but of

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course the military looks at everything

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from a threat assessment perspective so

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I mean I come out on the side of UFOs

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definitely being a potential threat and

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that's that's the the verbage they use a

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potential threat because clearly when

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you don't know what something is it's a

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potential threat you need to identify it

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and then be able to eliminate it as a

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possible threat but another big issue

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with this question and the answers

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people give is this weird idea that UFOs

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is a singular unified thing I mean UFOs

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aren't all the same thing right they

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aren't necessarily all related

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you can't ever in my opinion you can't

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ever eliminate UFOs as a potential

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threat

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completely because of their very nature

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their unknown objects they're not

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related just because you see what this

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one thing is it was flying in the

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airspace at this time does it mean you

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go oh that was nothing that's just fine

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we're not gonna look at it anymore

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because every UFO is different than

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every UFO has to be looked at from that

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sort of military threat assessment

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perspective what do you guys think uh

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yeah I mean we can go so far as if

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anyone listened to the conversation with

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Tom DeLonge Chris melon and Lois

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Elizondo recently Elizondo the former

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head of a tip the threat identification

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program it's right in the in the name of

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the program and of course someone like

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him is going to be looking at this topic

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from a a threat angle he asked you now

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that doesn't necessarily mean that these

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objects or phenomena are malevolent as

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Jason pointed out it just means we don't

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know what they are and they could pose a

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potential threat what I think is most

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interesting about this question Jason is

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the idea that it's not even the UFO or

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the UAP that's the threat it's us it's

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how we react to it it's now you know I

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recently covered the tehran UFO incident

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of 1976 and this is a prime example

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where a fighter pilot was in a

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cat-and-mouse you know game with the UFO

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and could possibly have used his weapons

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on it or vice versa yeah so I think a

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lot of it again comes down to the human

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being observing the object and if it's a

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military observer if we could be the

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threat we could be the one causing harm

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in our reaction to it so if we don't

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have protocol in you know setup for

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something like that the pilots gonna act

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the way they want to and if it's a

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threat to them they might fire on it so

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yeah I think the threat really comes

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from us more than it does any of these

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UFOs of course yeah I mean they've

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supposedly affected

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ordnance nuclear ordnance or they have

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harmed people in physiological ways at

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times but I think if we look at the

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overall history of UFOs it's really not

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a threat from the object itself it's how

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we react to it so yeah right and and

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like you brought up the confusing threat

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with malevolence that's an important

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thing to keep in mind here and like you

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just said with the disarming nuclear

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weapons and things like that and in

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other interactions that these things

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have reportedly caused you know just

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because those things aren't necessarily

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done out of malevolence they're not a

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hostile act the fact the simple fact

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that they seem to have the ability to do

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that that again is where potential

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threat comes in because you don't know

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the motives you know behind that is this

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just an accidental you know result of

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some electromagnetic interference or you

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know why these things are happening we

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don't know we don't know the why we

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don't know the motive if there even is a

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motive but we do have have these objects

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in the sky we do have our reactions to

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them and there's just a whole lot of

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unknowns there that cause a you know

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potential situation and until you have

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all of the data all of the information

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to make it make a reasonable decision I

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don't think you have that information to

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determine to cross it off the list of a

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potential threat and I've seen a lot of

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things going around recently because

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this has been such a hot topic you know

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people's sassy responses and and good

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analogies too and one analogy that I

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enjoyed because it involved swimming

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pools and we have tons of swimming pools

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here in Phoenix because like Shane said

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is 175 degrees right now in swimming

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pools right there are lots of swimming

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pools and swimming pools are nothing

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they're just pools of water they're just

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these big things in many different

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shapes filled with water that people use

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for fun sitting in people's backyards

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the pools themselves aren't dangerous

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they're not trying to hurt us they're

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not necessarily a threat but we still

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put fences around them because children

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fall in the pool and

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and die all the time it happens all the

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time every year here in Arizona it's a

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big deal and all around the world

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obviously but the pools themselves are

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not hostile yet we still view them as a

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potential threat so we take appropriate

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actions to prevent anything bad from

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happening with UFOs it's not that simple

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obviously because again we don't know

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what we're dealing with we're not

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dealing with one thing every UFO is

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different so it's almost impossible to

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figure out how you know if at all to

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respond we can't put up a fence and and

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have the the issue dealt with absolutely

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I think it's the human condition it

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really is Jason I'm glad you brought

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that up I mean we as human beings are

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defensive by nature so I mean we will

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always find a way to find a threat with

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anything we do I think that's just the

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way we are and when that gets amplified

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by our military that's a whole other

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level so yeah good point

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really good point what do you think

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about the shame yeah I think you know a

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couple different takes on it first of

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all like your analogy like I have horses

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right and I have a well-trained horse

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and it loves me and I love it and

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everything's cool but that horse is

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still a threat to me because it's a

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thousand-pound animal it can

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accidentally step on my foot and break

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it or you know it could get spooked

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somehow and I fall off and break my neck

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and die you know it's a threat but it's

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not the kind it's not an intentional

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threat it's it's threatening because of

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its you know its existence and its how

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it could conflict' with my existence

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right so I treat it with respect and and

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care and not always treat as a threat

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but so there's that bad angle and I

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think what's going on in ufology today

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and you know like with a tip and now

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with you know unidentified and stuff and

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these guys are really putting forth the

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threat nature of UFOs and some in the

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UFO community are very upset by that

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like no they're often nothing Neverland

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you're just trying to NOAA try this

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however just through the reasons you

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both stated first of all you look at

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there's different meanings to threat

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right so when you're talking military

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and intelligence they interpret threat

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in a very specific way so let me

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illustrate maybe I do if I could I just

273
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like to read a little excerpt from Linda

274
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Keens book UFOs generals pilots

275
00:12:31,619 --> 00:12:28,720
government officials go on the record

276
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and this is quoting basically Nick Pope

277
00:12:37,860 --> 00:12:35,290
but I I always thought his definition or

278
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a explanation of a military or

279
00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:40,480
intelligence threat in relation to UFOs

280
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it's pretty pretty well done it and it

281
00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:45,579
reads this way I says Nick Pope former

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00:12:50,850 --> 00:12:48,100
mo D official and UFO expert in the UK

283
00:12:53,189 --> 00:12:50,860
says that governments define threat in a

284
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very specific way especially within

285
00:12:59,150 --> 00:12:56,139
military intelligence circles the

286
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formula goes like this threat equals

287
00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:03,730
capability plus intent for example the

288
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United States is aware that the UK has

289
00:13:12,059 --> 00:13:10,180
nuclear weapons that's the threat okay

290
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:12,069
and therefore could launch a nuclear

291
00:13:19,049 --> 00:13:15,519
attack on America that is the capability

292
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but since the UK has no intent to launch

293
00:13:25,170 --> 00:13:22,120
such an attack the United States faces

294
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no threat in this regard so point poke

295
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:27,220
points out that we certainly know that

296
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UFOs have the capability of being a

297
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:31,689
threat given they're like a horse

298
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fantastic speed maneuverability far

299
00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:37,120
superior to our own technology but in

300
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:39,660
this case the intent of UFOs is

301
00:13:46,379 --> 00:13:43,800
completely unknown and therefore

302
00:13:49,439 --> 00:13:46,389
immeasurable because of that fact then

303
00:13:52,549 --> 00:13:49,449
UFOs must be taken seriously as possible

304
00:13:54,809 --> 00:13:52,559
threats so I think when you see that on

305
00:13:57,150 --> 00:13:54,819
unidentified and remember these are

306
00:13:59,610 --> 00:13:57,160
military guys intelligence guys and

307
00:14:01,949 --> 00:13:59,620
they're bringing cases that our military

308
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:01,959
cases write cases we probably never even

309
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:04,480
heard of first of all thank you thank

310
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:06,490
you because that expands our knowledge

311
00:14:11,980 --> 00:14:09,910
and understanding of it but in addition

312
00:14:15,190 --> 00:14:11,990
it helps us understand

313
00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:15,200
that our government's reaction and some

314
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:16,910
of the things that they do and have done

315
00:14:21,820 --> 00:14:19,850
and probably will do on that basis and

316
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:21,830
to me I think that's logical and thank

317
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:23,810
goodness there is somebody out there

318
00:14:30,430 --> 00:14:27,130
thinking that way because we do not know

319
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:30,440
and so yeah for 70 years they've not you

320
00:14:33,460 --> 00:14:31,910
know done anything particularly

321
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:33,470
threatening and that that whole thing

322
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:36,050
but you know we don't know yet so we

323
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:39,230
should you know have that posture at

324
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:40,850
least not not to be threatening

325
00:14:46,930 --> 00:14:43,760
ourselves but to be prepared if in fact

326
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:46,940
they ever approved to be threatening so

327
00:14:52,540 --> 00:14:49,600
that's kind of want one angle on threat

328
00:14:55,420 --> 00:14:52,550
the other to me and this is this comes

329
00:14:58,540 --> 00:14:55,430
from some research I did from a paper

330
00:15:01,000 --> 00:14:58,550
called UFOs and sovereignty by Alexander

331
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:01,010
Wendt and Raymond Duval and these guys

332
00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:04,450
they're two political scientists who

333
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:07,190
analyze the government's behavior for

334
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,880
these 75 years regarding UFOs and it's a

335
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:12,800
super complex and big long thing and we

336
00:15:17,530 --> 00:15:14,330
won't go into all that but one of the

337
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:17,540
things that they touched on is the fact

338
00:15:24,610 --> 00:15:21,770
that because UFOs you know whoever has

339
00:15:26,980 --> 00:15:24,620
created eminence is operating them and

340
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:26,990
and all of that they're clearly far

341
00:15:31,540 --> 00:15:29,360
superior to human beings at least

342
00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:31,550
they're technologists and so forth and

343
00:15:37,510 --> 00:15:33,649
if they ever do come and present them

344
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:37,520
themselves governments well they use

345
00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:39,890
this illustration they said if if some

346
00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:42,529
superior being manifested itself here

347
00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:45,550
like maybe Jesus is in the second coming

348
00:15:51,550 --> 00:15:48,529
and they demonstrate this superiority to

349
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:51,560
human beings who are human beings going

350
00:15:57,810 --> 00:15:54,050
to follow are they going to follow the

351
00:15:59,019 --> 00:15:57,820
superior being or the failed States

352
00:16:01,240 --> 00:15:59,029
nation-states

353
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:01,250
on this earth the global network of

354
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:03,770
these separate disparate governments who

355
00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:07,130
frankly have you know 200 of them with

356
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:10,430
by far the majority do not take care of

357
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:12,529
their people very well let's just put it

358
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:16,910
that way right so if if others present

359
00:16:22,510 --> 00:16:19,850
themselves in that way they view it as

360
00:16:25,390 --> 00:16:22,520
an existential threat to our

361
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,400
governmental system on earth and that

362
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:27,680
I don't think that gets enough play we

363
00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:30,050
always focus on the you know the the

364
00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:32,660
military threat aspect but you know you

365
00:16:37,810 --> 00:16:35,110
there has to be more of an exponent to

366
00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:37,820
playing the schizophrenic behavior of

367
00:16:43,150 --> 00:16:40,550
our governments you know that that we've

368
00:16:45,340 --> 00:16:43,160
seen for these 75 years and to that to

369
00:16:47,770 --> 00:16:45,350
me that makes a lot of sense they again

370
00:16:51,250 --> 00:16:47,780
provide a lot more powerful reason and

371
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:51,260
logic an example else but I just wanted

372
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:52,850
to bring that wound up because no one

373
00:16:57,130 --> 00:16:54,770
really talks about that aspect of it

374
00:17:00,820 --> 00:16:57,140
much but I think it's probably as much

375
00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:00,830
or greater a driving force than even the

376
00:17:06,370 --> 00:17:03,740
military threat because again it not

377
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:06,380
demonstrated you know an intent to

378
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:09,410
threaten us so I think maybe that's one

379
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:11,150
of the things that explains why they act

380
00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:13,310
the way they do I think Shane said it

381
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:16,550
all I would just elaborate by saying I

382
00:17:21,250 --> 00:17:18,890
think that's why our government has had

383
00:17:24,340 --> 00:17:21,260
plausible deniability for so long when

384
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:24,350
it comes to this issue like instead of

385
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:27,290
acknowledging it and admitting we don't

386
00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:29,210
control our skies or our nation's

387
00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:32,590
borders and in the air or in the sea

388
00:17:40,210 --> 00:17:35,870
it's not happening you're imagining it

389
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:40,220
it's it's explainable and I think now

390
00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:43,970
we're seeing with the Navy and the DoD

391
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:46,340
officially acknowledging a phenomenon in

392
00:17:52,180 --> 00:17:50,210
our skies that's a big shift in what you

393
00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:52,190
said Shane in terms of that existential

394
00:17:57,970 --> 00:17:56,120
question of what's beyond the government

395
00:18:00,250 --> 00:17:57,980
when it comes to this and like you said

396
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:00,260
yeah if a superior intelligence came

397
00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:02,810
down and said hey we don't care about

398
00:18:06,490 --> 00:18:04,670
your nation's borders we don't care if

399
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:06,500
you speak different languages have

400
00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:09,050
different religious beliefs like we made

401
00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:11,240
it here we're here we could get rid of

402
00:18:17,650 --> 00:18:13,190
you in an instant who are you gonna

403
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:17,660
follow us or your quote-unquote leader

404
00:18:21,790 --> 00:18:20,240
of your nation yeah so I think that's a

405
00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:21,800
really good point and I think we're

406
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:23,750
seeing a really interesting shift in the

407
00:18:30,190 --> 00:18:26,570
way the military is now acknowledging

408
00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:30,200
the topic and that could be a huge play

409
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:33,470
moving forward with the issue yeah but

410
00:18:37,420 --> 00:18:36,320
with both of you guys sort of bashing

411
00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:37,430
government here

412
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:39,350
I think we've guaranteed

413
00:18:44,170 --> 00:18:42,290
another stellar review on Apple podcast

414
00:18:47,170 --> 00:18:44,180
because we've established that this

415
00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:47,180
podcast has more left EBS I haven't

416
00:18:55,690 --> 00:18:49,750
gotten one of those in a while but oh

417
00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:55,700
I've got plenty I said I am glad we have

418
00:19:00,790 --> 00:18:57,770
the military thinking that way and

419
00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:00,800
protecting us so it isn't all bad well

420
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:03,260
our wonderful fans who leave the

421
00:19:08,650 --> 00:19:05,330
comments about left EBS or different

422
00:19:10,810 --> 00:19:08,660
people Wow alright well on a related

423
00:19:12,820 --> 00:19:10,820
topic let's talk about season 2 of

424
00:19:14,860 --> 00:19:12,830
unidentified inside America's UFO

425
00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:14,870
investigation that just premiered on

426
00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:17,180
Saturday July 11th what did you guys

427
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:18,950
think of the episode did Ryan did you

428
00:19:23,530 --> 00:19:21,530
see it yeah yeah I watched it on yeah

429
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:23,540
maybe a week ago or so one of those

430
00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:26,240
advanced ones but um it aired last night

431
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:29,030
I believe the ratings I heard were

432
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:32,480
really stellar and I thought it was

433
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:33,410
great

434
00:19:39,670 --> 00:19:36,080
UFOs in combat I believe it was titled

435
00:19:42,250 --> 00:19:39,680
and we got some new military encounters

436
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:42,260
one of which really blew me away with

437
00:19:51,130 --> 00:19:46,250
the the army specialists in Afghanistan

438
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:51,140
that that was really interesting and I

439
00:19:58,540 --> 00:19:53,600
was happy to see all our players are bad

440
00:20:00,610 --> 00:19:58,550
Chris Mellon we sell is Ando and yeah

441
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:00,620
yeah I thought it was good and we got

442
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:03,890
some interesting connections back to the

443
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:05,840
tick-tack UFO maybe that's what these

444
00:20:12,970 --> 00:20:08,330
guys are seeing in Afghanistan as well

445
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:12,980
so I think I think unidentified they're

446
00:20:17,530 --> 00:20:15,170
trying to make connections between what

447
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:17,540
these things could be and that it wasn't

448
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,530
just over the seas of California where

449
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:23,360
they saw this ticks act maybe we're

450
00:20:26,530 --> 00:20:25,370
seeing these in Afghanistan maybe we're

451
00:20:29,290 --> 00:20:26,540
seeing these in other parts of the

452
00:20:30,970 --> 00:20:29,300
United States um so yeah I I thought it

453
00:20:33,550 --> 00:20:30,980
was a really good opener for their new

454
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:33,560
season and it also introduced us to a

455
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:35,510
new format I think too we're gonna be

456
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:38,330
covering certain topics now which I find

457
00:20:42,730 --> 00:20:41,450
really interesting and yeah I'm excited

458
00:20:46,090 --> 00:20:42,740
to see where the series goes from here

459
00:20:47,950 --> 00:20:46,100
did you see the episode Shane yeah yeah

460
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:47,960
I thought it was terrific too and I

461
00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:51,660
think the big takeaway for me was that

462
00:20:58,520 --> 00:20:56,280
again military UFO encounters have not

463
00:21:00,800 --> 00:20:58,530
been available to the public and now

464
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:00,810
they're being made available I mean oh

465
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:02,310
my gosh this is the thing we've been

466
00:21:08,030 --> 00:21:05,130
asking for for those 75 years right and

467
00:21:09,650 --> 00:21:08,040
and it's happening and I mean at least I

468
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:09,660
wasn't familiar with those I don't know

469
00:21:14,060 --> 00:21:12,090
if they were in the public domain or not

470
00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:14,070
but you know I found it very interesting

471
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:17,940
they had cases from I think it was

472
00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:21,510
Kosovo from the first Gulf War

473
00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:27,750
first Vietnam and Afghanistan and you

474
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:32,940
know involving you know b-52s and a TENS

475
00:21:38,090 --> 00:21:35,250
and helicopters and just this whole

476
00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:38,100
variety of things and and again to me

477
00:21:44,570 --> 00:21:40,790
when you when you have different

478
00:21:45,620 --> 00:21:44,580
contexts for different encounters kind

479
00:21:48,410 --> 00:21:45,630
of like you are alluding to earlier

480
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:48,420
Jason you know it may not be one fun

481
00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:51,780
thing and and that that is interesting

482
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:52,980
and and you know there are different

483
00:21:57,620 --> 00:21:55,200
types and they're different shapes and I

484
00:22:00,650 --> 00:21:57,630
think what this does is it also helps

485
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:00,660
corroborate the public cases that we

486
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:03,090
have in like all of our classic cases

487
00:22:07,130 --> 00:22:05,130
from Roswell to the Phoenix lights and

488
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:07,140
that kind of thing when you have

489
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:09,690
military people especially in the

490
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:11,970
theatres of war you know having these

491
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:14,610
experiences and they they run similar to

492
00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:17,520
the public experiences then to me again

493
00:22:21,890 --> 00:22:20,100
military cases are highly credible

494
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:21,900
because of the people involved the

495
00:22:25,790 --> 00:22:24,000
equipment you know like you know you

496
00:22:28,190 --> 00:22:25,800
just think about radar systems you know

497
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:28,200
but those are closed systems those are

498
00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:31,110
you know instruments and they're they're

499
00:22:35,150 --> 00:22:33,420
patched and they're maintained and

500
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:35,160
they're highly trained operators of

501
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:36,960
those things you know so when you when

502
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:38,850
you collect that kind of data it's it's

503
00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:41,970
super valuable you know and so all of

504
00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:44,910
those things I think us becoming aware

505
00:22:49,970 --> 00:22:48,420
of those actually you know supports all

506
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:49,980
the public stuff that we've seen all

507
00:22:53,210 --> 00:22:51,090
these years and that we always talk

508
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:53,220
about so I think it's you know really

509
00:23:00,130 --> 00:22:56,310
really gonna be a valuable thing to the

510
00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:00,140
whole you know ufology and whole and how

511
00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:03,030
people in the public learnt UFO people

512
00:23:11,150 --> 00:23:04,020
it

513
00:23:13,370 --> 00:23:11,160
again goes back to well maybe these guys

514
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:13,380
aren't wackos these are their people who

515
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,690
you know I've been reporting UFOs

516
00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:17,700
because they've been reported in the

517
00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:20,100
military for all these decades and no

518
00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:21,960
one just heard about it now it's coming

519
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:24,120
out so I mean I think that it's it's

520
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:27,330
good for everybody to have it go down

521
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:32,010
like that yeah I mean it it is

522
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:34,530
interesting to see the audience that the

523
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:37,050
show is reaching and they had a

524
00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:39,570
tremendous response to last season and

525
00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:41,790
had all these military people coming

526
00:23:46,460 --> 00:23:44,430
forward with their own sighting

527
00:23:48,290 --> 00:23:46,470
experiences that's really cool and we're

528
00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:48,300
gonna see that and we already did see

529
00:23:52,820 --> 00:23:49,830
that in the first episode we'll see more

530
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,830
of that the results of that on this

531
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:55,200
second season like you mentioned not

532
00:23:58,100 --> 00:23:56,400
surprisingly it's focused on the

533
00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:58,110
military but that is the focus of this

534
00:24:02,750 --> 00:24:00,960
show and you know after seeing the first

535
00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:02,760
episode a couple weeks ago when I wrote

536
00:24:07,490 --> 00:24:04,980
a little preview for the season on rogue

537
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:07,500
planet I posted about it on social media

538
00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:09,720
with a cheesy comment about how I hope

539
00:24:14,030 --> 00:24:11,580
your breath still stinks because season

540
00:24:16,370 --> 00:24:14,040
two is giving you more tic tacs and that

541
00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:16,380
is certainly true I mean there they are

542
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:19,380
all about the tic tac and I don't know

543
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:21,840
to me it seems like there it's a weird

544
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:23,640
trying to force a connection between

545
00:24:30,050 --> 00:24:26,520
other sightings and the 2004 Nimitz

546
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:30,060
stik-tek UFO encounter you know even

547
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:32,130
comments about oh yeah that that looks

548
00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:34,050
like a tic-tac or that sounds like a

549
00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:36,360
tic-tac you know maybe that's a good

550
00:24:40,610 --> 00:24:38,190
thing maybe it's not I think that's kind

551
00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:40,620
of an unnecessary forced connection I

552
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:42,780
mean we again we we had this need to

553
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:45,720
find connections with things in life and

554
00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:47,970
with UFOs I think most times there there

555
00:24:53,870 --> 00:24:51,960
aren't connections and you know Tom

556
00:24:56,420 --> 00:24:53,880
DeLonge even posted on social media

557
00:24:58,490 --> 00:24:56,430
either today or yesterday about how

558
00:25:02,060 --> 00:24:58,500
they're going to use religious texts and

559
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:02,070
add that to their their AI for looking

560
00:25:07,340 --> 00:25:05,850
for patterns throughout history and you

561
00:25:09,910 --> 00:25:07,350
know that's that's interesting and all

562
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:09,920
but again people change over time with

563
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:13,170
how we describe things the things we're

564
00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:16,480
used to seeing and you know I would

565
00:25:22,380 --> 00:25:20,230
bet that a lot of what people are

566
00:25:25,470 --> 00:25:22,390
calling Tic Tacs now because that's just

567
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:25,480
such a buzz term that people new to this

568
00:25:30,990 --> 00:25:28,000
are are thinking that is a thing these

569
00:25:32,790 --> 00:25:31,000
tic-tac UFOs we've seen so many shapes

570
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:32,800
over the years and I would guess that

571
00:25:38,430 --> 00:25:34,930
people who described something as a

572
00:25:41,010 --> 00:25:38,440
cigar shaped UFO years ago would now

573
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:41,020
call that a tic-tac UFO just because a

574
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:42,910
similar shape you know these things that

575
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:46,960
are you know kind of elongated it look

576
00:25:51,030 --> 00:25:49,240
like a cigar or something you know these

577
00:25:52,830 --> 00:25:51,040
these shapes change over time again I

578
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,840
mean some of my favorites and that

579
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:54,400
that's a book in itself we should write

580
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:56,110
some time about different shapes of UFOs

581
00:25:59,100 --> 00:25:57,850
but yeah the British are the best with

582
00:26:01,320 --> 00:25:59,110
their shapes I mean they've got they've

583
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:01,330
had hamburger UFOs and things like that

584
00:26:04,770 --> 00:26:03,190
I love reading some of those sighting

585
00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:04,780
reports of how people describe these

586
00:26:08,790 --> 00:26:06,670
things but we're certainly seeing more

587
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:08,800
more tick tack UFOs now because that's

588
00:26:14,250 --> 00:26:11,890
been put out there into into the

589
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,260
community and into the thought process

590
00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:16,960
and now we've got this this show you

591
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:19,390
know pushing the UFO narrative driving

592
00:26:24,450 --> 00:26:21,610
the UFO narrative and and this focus on

593
00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:24,460
tick tack UFOs and and trying to find

594
00:26:28,020 --> 00:26:26,500
tick tack UFOs from all over the world

595
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:28,030
so that's interesting it'll be

596
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:31,330
interesting to see what that does to the

597
00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:33,910
the discussion to the dialogue and

598
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:36,340
discourse on UFOs going forward but I'm

599
00:26:39,150 --> 00:26:37,810
excited to see where the season goes

600
00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:39,160
again I think it's really cool we're

601
00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:42,190
seeing these this Millett military

602
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:45,030
testimony coming forward from people who

603
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:46,930
obviously the ones we're hearing from

604
00:26:51,090 --> 00:26:48,370
are no longer in the military they're

605
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:51,100
able to talk about it but yeah the the

606
00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:53,110
really old ones are really cool to me

607
00:26:58,500 --> 00:26:55,270
because especially people you know like

608
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:58,510
the Vietnam era and things like that the

609
00:27:02,820 --> 00:27:00,640
stigma was so much worse than it is now

610
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:02,830
and those were just things you did not

611
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:05,650
talk about and these are people who even

612
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:07,930
if they did happen to tell somebody

613
00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:09,610
about it which you know that is

614
00:27:12,570 --> 00:27:11,350
extremely rare that they would tell

615
00:27:15,870 --> 00:27:12,580
anybody about something like that

616
00:27:17,370 --> 00:27:15,880
because of the ridicule factor but you

617
00:27:19,910 --> 00:27:17,380
know for them to be able to unload that

618
00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:19,920
and how people take them seriously

619
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:22,780
that's got to be such a relief such a

620
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:25,120
such a burden that they're unable to

621
00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:28,090
unload and finally feel I'm not crazy

622
00:27:31,860 --> 00:27:30,100
you know and people are not

623
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:31,870
calling me crazy and they're genuinely

624
00:27:37,230 --> 00:27:34,110
interested in hearing about what I

625
00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:37,240
experienced and maybe even trying to

626
00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:39,580
find some answers yeah I think the

627
00:27:44,159 --> 00:27:41,320
weight has been lifted off of a lot of

628
00:27:47,310 --> 00:27:44,169
these witnesses shoulders I mean you're

629
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:47,320
talking back Vietnam or even earlier the

630
00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:50,169
idea of shell-shocked and and whatnot in

631
00:27:56,370 --> 00:27:54,070
Gulf War Syndrome I mean you you were

632
00:27:58,380 --> 00:27:56,380
caught dead talking about a UFO because

633
00:28:01,200 --> 00:27:58,390
that is a telltale sign that you're

634
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:01,210
suffering this what we now term PTSD and

635
00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:04,960
whatnot so I mean right there if you

636
00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:07,630
wanted to get out of the military or out

637
00:28:13,919 --> 00:28:11,470
of war report a UFO that seems to be the

638
00:28:15,899 --> 00:28:13,929
way to go to get out of it but a lot of

639
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:15,909
these guys were doing it for their

640
00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:17,710
country and serving their country and

641
00:28:22,590 --> 00:28:20,500
they didn't want to leave so let's take

642
00:28:24,539 --> 00:28:22,600
for instance the guy the witness that

643
00:28:26,669 --> 00:28:24,549
saw the Vietnam UFO in that first

644
00:28:28,049 --> 00:28:26,679
unidentified episode if he had talked

645
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,059
about it then like they probably would

646
00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:30,640
have got rid of it so yeah I think it's

647
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:32,950
interesting the pressure to not come

648
00:28:36,299 --> 00:28:34,450
forward with these things within the

649
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:36,309
military and again we're seeing that

650
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:38,530
shift and I think this show and this

651
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:40,720
organization have a lot to do with that

652
00:28:44,669 --> 00:28:42,190
no matter what you think of them whether

653
00:28:47,370 --> 00:28:44,679
you follow them support them demonize

654
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:47,380
them they are changing the conversation

655
00:28:52,649 --> 00:28:50,799
and that's interesting let's hop

656
00:28:55,380 --> 00:28:52,659
straight from talking about unidentified

657
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:55,390
to the related topic of the intelligence

658
00:29:00,360 --> 00:28:57,760
Authorization Act for fiscal year 2021

659
00:29:03,870 --> 00:29:00,370
this bill introduced in the Senate on

660
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,880
June 8th that if enacted would require a

661
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:05,919
report to be assembled by the Office of

662
00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:08,289
Naval Intelligence and others and it

663
00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:10,360
would essentially paint a picture of the

664
00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:12,990
current assessment of the UFO situation

665
00:29:18,770 --> 00:29:16,390
at a government level so what are your

666
00:29:22,770 --> 00:29:18,780
thoughts on this proposed bill Shane

667
00:29:25,049 --> 00:29:22,780
yeah I mean I think it's a definitely a

668
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:25,059
step in the right direction I think it

669
00:29:31,169 --> 00:29:28,330
it's a baby step but we'll take it I

670
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:31,179
think also that it came to be because of

671
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:35,200
the efforts of of T TSA so if they've

672
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:36,730
accomplished something in that regard

673
00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:42,850
that hasn't happened ever and so I think

674
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:43,900
it's it's very

675
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:46,210
important in that regard however I do

676
00:29:51,540 --> 00:29:48,730
approach it with some caution because

677
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:51,550
it's still not a lot yet still hasn't

678
00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:53,170
really happened it's just it's a

679
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:55,990
suggestion so so far and then the

680
00:30:02,870 --> 00:29:58,240
requirements are to produce a public

681
00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:02,880
report and it can have it a as I recall

682
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:05,350
classified addendum to it that that

683
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:07,570
would not be released so uh you dare

684
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:09,340
kind of cut pepper in both faces there

685
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:13,150
which I think is wise but you know I

686
00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:18,210
just fear the project Bluebook sort of

687
00:30:24,090 --> 00:30:21,190
whitewashing of of the information

688
00:30:25,980 --> 00:30:24,100
that's reported if I mean and I think

689
00:30:28,140 --> 00:30:25,990
what's happening is you know you that

690
00:30:30,390 --> 00:30:28,150
there is a battle going on in our

691
00:30:33,090 --> 00:30:30,400
government right now between two camps

692
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:33,100
okay not everyone in the government is

693
00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:35,170
aware of this issue but I'm talking

694
00:30:40,020 --> 00:30:38,260
about there's two specific groups that

695
00:30:42,330 --> 00:30:40,030
are aware of what's going on

696
00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:42,340
one group of closes releasing

697
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:45,160
information the other group supports it

698
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:47,710
I think this is like you know Luis

699
00:30:52,590 --> 00:30:50,080
Alison Dale coming out of the military

700
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:52,600
was he's from the camp that wants to

701
00:30:57,780 --> 00:30:55,030
release information was stonewalled

702
00:31:00,270 --> 00:30:57,790
couldn't get it done on the inside so he

703
00:31:02,370 --> 00:31:00,280
his attempt on the outside of the PTSA

704
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:02,380
and you know it's moving the the meat

705
00:31:06,510 --> 00:31:04,000
the meat or something okay so that's

706
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:06,520
that's awesome but um and he's even

707
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:08,530
spoke up those two different camps and

708
00:31:14,370 --> 00:31:12,310
so who ultimately is gonna win I don't

709
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:14,380
know I mean I like to think that the

710
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:17,350
truth always wins out but they end it's

711
00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:19,840
been 75 years we've been putting up with

712
00:31:26,460 --> 00:31:22,780
with the lie so I guess that's what's

713
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:26,470
got me skeptical but I'm hopeful that's

714
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:30,010
oddly well and to that point yeah it is

715
00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:33,250
it is a little confusing at least from

716
00:31:37,410 --> 00:31:35,860
my perspective you know like with with

717
00:31:40,260 --> 00:31:37,420
Willa's Ando you know with his

718
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:40,270
frustration and and leaving and trying

719
00:31:47,130 --> 00:31:44,050
to do things outside the government yet

720
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,140
the efforts now are focused on doing

721
00:31:51,570 --> 00:31:49,600
things inside the government and trying

722
00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:51,580
to get you know allies on the inside

723
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:54,400
well we already had allies on the inside

724
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:56,410
and those allies left we're trying to go

725
00:32:00,220 --> 00:31:57,200
back inside

726
00:32:03,070 --> 00:32:00,230
and then even with like Senator Reid

727
00:32:05,950 --> 00:32:03,080
right top guy in the Senate advocate for

728
00:32:08,350 --> 00:32:05,960
UFOs however he's even said that with

729
00:32:10,509 --> 00:32:08,360
with a tip like he wanted to move it to

730
00:32:12,730 --> 00:32:10,519
a special access program he wanted to

731
00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:12,740
make it even harder for that information

732
00:32:17,950 --> 00:32:14,720
to you know be found by people like us

733
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:17,960
so it's it's a very confusing game when

734
00:32:21,850 --> 00:32:19,970
it comes to politics and the government

735
00:32:23,769 --> 00:32:21,860
and this topic and like you said Shane

736
00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:23,779
with Blue Book and every other

737
00:32:26,919 --> 00:32:25,340
government study that's been done on

738
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:26,929
this we've kind of been down this road

739
00:32:32,259 --> 00:32:29,690
where they've had input from other

740
00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:32,269
people and other organizations within

741
00:32:36,250 --> 00:32:34,190
the military and within the government

742
00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:36,260
they put their information together and

743
00:32:42,220 --> 00:32:39,590
ultimately concluded yeah UFOs nothing

744
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:42,230
here move on so why is this going to be

745
00:32:45,940 --> 00:32:44,690
any different well we'll see and another

746
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:45,950
thing that's it's always interesting

747
00:32:52,330 --> 00:32:48,799
about these efforts is that it's

748
00:32:55,210 --> 00:32:52,340
intriguing that people who are briefed

749
00:32:57,639 --> 00:32:55,220
on these the this subject and take an

750
00:33:00,039 --> 00:32:57,649
interest in it enough to look into it

751
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:00,049
more or try to make some action happen

752
00:33:03,879 --> 00:33:02,210
these are people in the government and

753
00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:03,889
they're being briefed and given their

754
00:33:08,049 --> 00:33:05,809
their information or having their eyes

755
00:33:11,139 --> 00:33:08,059
open by people in the UFO community

756
00:33:12,669 --> 00:33:11,149
really UFO groups UFO individuals are

757
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:12,679
the ones briefing the government about

758
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:14,690
what's happening and then the people in

759
00:33:19,810 --> 00:33:16,880
the government go oh wow I didn't know

760
00:33:21,490 --> 00:33:19,820
that let's look into it why are you

761
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:21,500
getting your information from UFO people

762
00:33:25,060 --> 00:33:23,120
number one and number two why are you

763
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:25,070
even listening to that why wouldn't you

764
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,230
you know get your information from the

765
00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:29,120
government or from the military if that

766
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:31,220
information exists you probably would

767
00:33:34,930 --> 00:33:33,049
know about it if you had that interest

768
00:33:37,299 --> 00:33:34,940
but you should be able to find out about

769
00:33:40,269 --> 00:33:37,309
it but it's always been interesting to

770
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:40,279
me how I mean that feels conspiracy for

771
00:33:44,289 --> 00:33:42,320
sure and it's people it's easy for

772
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:44,299
people to dismiss and say well yeah but

773
00:33:48,430 --> 00:33:46,490
that shows that it's true but you know

774
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:48,440
people like Steven Greer people like

775
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:50,960
Paul Hellyer in Canada you know a lot of

776
00:33:56,289 --> 00:33:53,510
his information was based off of a UFO

777
00:33:57,730 --> 00:33:56,299
author who shared information with him

778
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:57,740
and he goes oh wow

779
00:34:01,360 --> 00:33:59,360
I didn't know that was happening I need

780
00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:01,370
to look into this you know so a lot of

781
00:34:05,019 --> 00:34:03,320
the information is coming from the UFO

782
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:05,029
community so it raises lots of questions

783
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:08,000
about the narrative that exists where

784
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:10,010
this information is coming from and how

785
00:34:12,970 --> 00:34:10,970
the whole

786
00:34:15,549 --> 00:34:12,980
sort of timeline happens with a lot of

787
00:34:17,289 --> 00:34:15,559
these things is there a real concern

788
00:34:19,419 --> 00:34:17,299
within the government is there anything

789
00:34:21,279 --> 00:34:19,429
that the government has that they can

790
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:21,289
share with us you know I'm sure they

791
00:34:23,980 --> 00:34:22,609
would like to continue the illusion that

792
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,990
they have all the answers they've got

793
00:34:28,419 --> 00:34:26,000
these secret information that we're not

794
00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:28,429
allowed to have but you know with this

795
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:30,470
bill if it even passes the Senate then

796
00:34:33,339 --> 00:34:32,089
passes the House then gets signed by the

797
00:34:35,139 --> 00:34:33,349
president into law

798
00:34:37,839 --> 00:34:35,149
like you said Shane it's at their

799
00:34:40,690 --> 00:34:37,849
discretion to disclose what they want

800
00:34:43,089 --> 00:34:40,700
it's up to these individual groups to

801
00:34:46,089 --> 00:34:43,099
say oh yeah here's our information about

802
00:34:47,409 --> 00:34:46,099
UFOs and it's certainly not all the

803
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:47,419
information but it's what we want to

804
00:34:51,490 --> 00:34:49,609
present to you because you don't need to

805
00:34:52,990 --> 00:34:51,500
know what we're working on over here and

806
00:34:55,210 --> 00:34:53,000
it's the same problems that they

807
00:34:57,339 --> 00:34:55,220
highlight in that in that bill and that

808
00:34:59,319 --> 00:34:57,349
is the lack of communication lack of

809
00:35:01,599 --> 00:34:59,329
cross talk all these different groups

810
00:35:03,370 --> 00:35:01,609
have no idea what the other is doing and

811
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:03,380
a lot of that you know we've got a lot

812
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:05,210
of secrecy going on between different

813
00:35:07,690 --> 00:35:06,410
branches of government and thing

814
00:35:09,819 --> 00:35:07,700
although we're all on the same side

815
00:35:11,620 --> 00:35:09,829
they're doing their own things and

816
00:35:14,740 --> 00:35:11,630
they've got their their own interests at

817
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:14,750
heart so you know ultimately it's up to

818
00:35:18,819 --> 00:35:16,250
them to put forth the information that's

819
00:35:21,609 --> 00:35:18,829
being requested and you know what winds

820
00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:21,619
up in that report who knows but I'm

821
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:23,630
curious to see and I'm really curious

822
00:35:28,029 --> 00:35:26,690
and skeptical to see if we the public

823
00:35:30,579 --> 00:35:28,039
get to see any of that even though

824
00:35:33,490 --> 00:35:30,589
they've specifically asked for that what

825
00:35:37,059 --> 00:35:33,500
do you think right yeah I I think I

826
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:37,069
think you're right I think this bill or

827
00:35:43,390 --> 00:35:41,930
this Intelligence Committee I'm afraid

828
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,400
it's going to have the opposite effect

829
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:45,920
that I think a lot of the UFO people

830
00:35:50,499 --> 00:35:48,529
think it's gonna have I do think you're

831
00:35:52,180 --> 00:35:50,509
right I think this is and even Chris

832
00:35:54,220 --> 00:35:52,190
Mellon tweeted out I think last night

833
00:35:56,109 --> 00:35:54,230
this is Project Blue Book for the 21st

834
00:36:00,309 --> 00:35:56,119
century of and I immediately was like

835
00:36:04,180 --> 00:36:00,319
dude no that's not money won because we

836
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:04,190
now know how filtered and suppressed and

837
00:36:09,249 --> 00:36:06,079
controlled the project Bluebook

838
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:09,259
narrative was in with all of this and

839
00:36:13,749 --> 00:36:11,210
thank God for someone like Hynek coming

840
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:13,759
out in explaining like this is what I

841
00:36:19,569 --> 00:36:15,890
found this is what the government told

842
00:36:22,359 --> 00:36:19,579
you now maybe is this gonna be a project

843
00:36:24,190 --> 00:36:22,369
Bluebook part two I hope not but you're

844
00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:24,200
right if we have this committee doing

845
00:36:26,890 --> 00:36:24,830
this

846
00:36:29,770 --> 00:36:26,900
they control the narrative again and

847
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:29,780
they get to decide what it is and what

848
00:36:37,870 --> 00:36:32,210
the public is going to be told so I do

849
00:36:39,970 --> 00:36:37,880
worry um I I have good and high hopes

850
00:36:42,010 --> 00:36:39,980
that maybe we'll get some cool cases out

851
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:42,020
of it again but I think the overall

852
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:45,110
issue and the potential for threat and

853
00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:47,210
all of that is going to be in that

854
00:36:52,180 --> 00:36:49,910
classified caveat to this thing um and

855
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:52,190
again we understand the need for that

856
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,050
yeah we I think the three of us can

857
00:36:58,510 --> 00:36:56,240
agree uh we understand why this topic

858
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:58,520
needs to be classified at a level but at

859
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:01,040
the same time I think those who really

860
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:04,610
support the work of Mellon and T TSA and

861
00:37:11,710 --> 00:37:07,520
everything just I urge them to keep in

862
00:37:14,170 --> 00:37:11,720
mind that they may not they may not give

863
00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:14,180
us the information that you so want and

864
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:17,510
that that's sobering or or yeah the the

865
00:37:22,780 --> 00:37:20,240
result of that coming out and the the

866
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:22,790
results or lack of results you know

867
00:37:26,890 --> 00:37:25,250
could be quite detrimental you know so

868
00:37:29,170 --> 00:37:26,900
there's always that to you and here's

869
00:37:30,730 --> 00:37:29,180
the thing with with the Chris Mullins

870
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:30,740
comment about Project Blue Book for the

871
00:37:36,070 --> 00:37:33,490
21st century didn't we already have that

872
00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:36,080
raises questions about a tip right I

873
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:37,640
mean we don't really know what a chip

874
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:39,170
did there was this whole thing about all

875
00:37:42,580 --> 00:37:40,730
they didn't do anything with UFOs and

876
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:42,590
their what they did things with UFOs and

877
00:37:46,660 --> 00:37:44,240
we've always been told they were the

878
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:46,670
pentagon's UFO you know research project

879
00:37:51,610 --> 00:37:48,290
that's essentially what Blue Book was

880
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:51,620
for the Air Force so I mean didn't we

881
00:37:56,260 --> 00:37:53,450
already have a Blue Book for the 21st

882
00:37:59,410 --> 00:37:56,270
century you know that was that was 2007

883
00:38:01,750 --> 00:37:59,420
to 2012 and allegedly still ongoing and

884
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,760
now we have the UAP task force and

885
00:38:06,130 --> 00:38:03,440
that's supposedly you know the new

886
00:38:08,140 --> 00:38:06,140
version of a chip so I mean it seems

887
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:08,150
like we already have a Blue Book for the

888
00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:10,400
21st century but Chris Mullins comment

889
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:12,200
makes that very confusing as well so

890
00:38:17,290 --> 00:38:14,690
plus I mean the other interesting thing

891
00:38:19,690 --> 00:38:17,300
too about this bill right is that this

892
00:38:23,230 --> 00:38:19,700
proposed bill doesn't discuss public

893
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:23,240
sightings or reports at all so it can't

894
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:26,000
truly be a you know a good analogy with

895
00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:28,160
Project Blue Book because Blue Book was

896
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:30,830
a lot of public cases it was sighting

897
00:38:35,050 --> 00:38:32,690
reports from the public that they were

898
00:38:35,859 --> 00:38:35,060
investigating yeah military sightings

899
00:38:40,029 --> 00:38:35,869
are

900
00:38:42,190 --> 00:38:40,039
1% of the 99% UFO reports so I think

901
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:42,200
yeah that's that's a really good point

902
00:38:45,999 --> 00:38:43,490
to make juice and this bill is

903
00:38:49,059 --> 00:38:46,009
specifically focused on military all

904
00:38:50,650 --> 00:38:49,069
military and only on a few groups within

905
00:38:52,809 --> 00:38:50,660
the military I mean they're not even

906
00:38:54,819 --> 00:38:52,819
bringing in all government bodies

907
00:38:56,410 --> 00:38:54,829
they're not bringing in the FAA like

908
00:38:59,170 --> 00:38:56,420
they're not interested in that stuff

909
00:39:01,239 --> 00:38:59,180
this is all military that seems a little

910
00:39:03,870 --> 00:39:01,249
ridiculous to me and I think that proves

911
00:39:06,730 --> 00:39:03,880
once again why we need civilian

912
00:39:09,370 --> 00:39:06,740
investigatory programs and organizations

913
00:39:12,789 --> 00:39:09,380
and and independent researchers out

914
00:39:13,809 --> 00:39:12,799
there doing the dirty work you know

915
00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:13,819
traveling around the country

916
00:39:19,180 --> 00:39:17,150
interviewing people and whatnot who are

917
00:39:22,269 --> 00:39:19,190
also having these experiences other than

918
00:39:24,999 --> 00:39:22,279
military yeah so we can remain realistic

919
00:39:26,859 --> 00:39:25,009
but I'm still you know hopeful and

920
00:39:28,359 --> 00:39:26,869
optimistic that you know something good

921
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:28,369
comes out of that it does start new

922
00:39:33,249 --> 00:39:31,130
discussions it does help people become

923
00:39:35,710 --> 00:39:33,259
aware within the government that there

924
00:39:37,359 --> 00:39:35,720
is first of all a communications problem

925
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:37,369
they need to get their [\h__\h] together and

926
00:39:41,380 --> 00:39:39,440
being able to to communicate especially

927
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:41,390
when it comes to this topic to be able

928
00:39:45,339 --> 00:39:43,609
to share that data and you know

929
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:45,349
hopefully get a better understanding of

930
00:39:49,870 --> 00:39:47,930
what's going on and and you know what

931
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:49,880
they can do to get more more information

932
00:39:54,130 --> 00:39:51,920
about the subject we have to take

933
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:54,140
everything everything with a grain of

934
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:55,970
salt you have you know you have to be as

935
00:40:01,809 --> 00:39:59,839
balanced as you can and understand you

936
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:01,819
know there are multiple agendas and

937
00:40:06,579 --> 00:40:04,249
politics going on all the time when it

938
00:40:08,979 --> 00:40:06,589
comes to UFOs and you got to keep your

939
00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:08,989
feet on the ground and and just you know

940
00:40:14,049 --> 00:40:10,910
don't put all your eggs in one basket

941
00:40:16,329 --> 00:40:14,059
because as we've learned over and over

942
00:40:18,999 --> 00:40:16,339
you know those eggs are gonna get broken

943
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,009
I mean it just we've been disappointed a

944
00:40:25,420 --> 00:40:22,400
million times right so I just I try not

945
00:40:26,890 --> 00:40:25,430
to get too strongly opinionated and I

946
00:40:29,229 --> 00:40:26,900
always reserve the right to change my

947
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:29,239
mind because new information comes out

948
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:32,210
but I just think that you know something

949
00:40:37,259 --> 00:40:34,910
your chest and claiming this or that is

950
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:37,269
dangerous dangerous thing to do because

951
00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:39,890
the information the world that we're

952
00:40:44,019 --> 00:40:42,049
living in and this topic and all the

953
00:40:45,579 --> 00:40:44,029
tangents and the people and all the

954
00:40:47,470 --> 00:40:45,589
agendas I mean you can have egg on your

955
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:47,480
face real quick so yeah I think it's

956
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:48,480
just you know

957
00:40:53,690 --> 00:40:51,599
be skeptical to a healthy degree be

958
00:40:55,849 --> 00:40:53,700
supportive where where it's warranted

959
00:40:58,430 --> 00:40:55,859
you know be critical where it's

960
00:40:59,839 --> 00:40:58,440
warranted and and you know and just try

961
00:41:02,540 --> 00:40:59,849
and you know stay in the middle of the

962
00:41:04,579 --> 00:41:02,550
road and and take it as it comes and and

963
00:41:07,220 --> 00:41:04,589
you know analyze it with what you know

964
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:07,230
and you know go ahead and develop some

965
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:09,270
opinions and theories but just recognize

966
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:11,250
that that's all they are and that they

967
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,050
should be subject to change and that I

968
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:15,359
think that's kind of a safe way to do it

969
00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:17,490
and I think it's not not cowardly but

970
00:41:22,609 --> 00:41:20,609
it's the response or when it is it's a

971
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:22,619
responsible way I agree with you 100%

972
00:41:29,450 --> 00:41:26,130
and on that note the final topic we can

973
00:41:32,329 --> 00:41:29,460
touch on quickly is hype grand claims

974
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:32,339
and unnamed sources things that have

975
00:41:37,069 --> 00:41:34,200
always been precedent in the UFO field

976
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:37,079
and are things that thrive on social

977
00:41:42,260 --> 00:41:40,079
media unfortunately predictions are

978
00:41:43,940 --> 00:41:42,270
another thing I'll throw in there and as

979
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:43,950
history is shown it's typically the

980
00:41:48,740 --> 00:41:46,290
wiser move for anybody who expects to be

981
00:41:51,260 --> 00:41:48,750
taken seriously to steer clear of making

982
00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:51,270
predictions related to this topic but

983
00:41:55,700 --> 00:41:53,310
these common problematic issues have

984
00:41:58,190 --> 00:41:55,710
been perfectly Illustrated lately by the

985
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:58,200
public statements and restatements about

986
00:42:01,790 --> 00:42:00,000
an impending article in The New York

987
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:01,800
Times about a US government UFO crash

988
00:42:07,370 --> 00:42:04,910
retrieval program now claims like this

989
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:07,380
usually come from people who assert that

990
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:09,450
they have some secret unnamed source

991
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:11,790
who's read this amazing information to

992
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:14,940
them and yeah that may very well be true

993
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:18,119
in some cases however it seems to me

994
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:20,010
that by publicly spreading around

995
00:42:24,109 --> 00:42:21,839
something that was told to you in

996
00:42:26,089 --> 00:42:24,119
confidence you're not only putting the

997
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:26,099
sources job in jeopardy you're also

998
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:27,810
putting everything surrounding the claim

999
00:42:32,750 --> 00:42:30,480
in jeopardy by that well let's look

1000
00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:32,760
specifically at the claim about the New

1001
00:42:36,890 --> 00:42:34,950
York Times story if revealing the fact

1002
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:36,900
that such a story was being worked on

1003
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:38,490
was permitted and wouldn't jeopardize

1004
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:42,210
the research the scoop and so on then

1005
00:42:46,730 --> 00:42:44,520
the source would directly share that

1006
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:46,740
information with the public or wouldn't

1007
00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:49,650
mind being named and with news spreading

1008
00:42:54,319 --> 00:42:52,260
about this alleged impending story The

1009
00:42:57,260 --> 00:42:54,329
Times would have to know that the source

1010
00:42:59,660 --> 00:42:57,270
was prematurely blabbing about the story

1011
00:43:01,520 --> 00:42:59,670
therefore potentially resulting in the

1012
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:01,530
source being fired and the story being

1013
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:02,130
scrapped

1014
00:43:06,620 --> 00:43:04,920
and it's not just the story yeah it's

1015
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:06,630
every story like this in the UFO

1016
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:08,640
community where there are alleged secret

1017
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:12,240
communications amazing claims made and

1018
00:43:16,849 --> 00:43:14,730
people within the UFO community eager to

1019
00:43:18,499 --> 00:43:16,859
break that news to everybody else

1020
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:18,509
without stopping to think of the

1021
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:20,730
potential damage it can do we're really

1022
00:43:25,309 --> 00:43:23,609
in a time right now where people want to

1023
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:25,319
be the first you know they want to be

1024
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:28,650
the first two to share some great news

1025
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:30,960
some information even is something

1026
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:33,450
something silly about an article coming

1027
00:43:37,249 --> 00:43:36,089
out I mean mainstream media publishes

1028
00:43:39,559 --> 00:43:37,259
articles all the time about these

1029
00:43:41,690 --> 00:43:39,569
incredible stories and topics related to

1030
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:41,700
UFOs and you could argue that the times

1031
00:43:45,170 --> 00:43:42,480
already

1032
00:43:47,690 --> 00:43:45,180
in fact talked about crash retrievals

1033
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:47,700
because in that great story you know

1034
00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:49,730
that start started this whole whirlwind

1035
00:43:55,549 --> 00:43:53,400
back in 2017 they mentioned big low

1036
00:43:57,319 --> 00:43:55,559
modifying buildings to store materials I

1037
00:43:59,720 --> 00:43:57,329
mean that was already covered and crash

1038
00:44:01,700 --> 00:43:59,730
retrievals isn't a new topic

1039
00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:01,710
in this field that's been covered over

1040
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:04,920
and over and over since Roswell I mean

1041
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:07,410
that was the start of it there's been so

1042
00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:08,970
many mainstream media outlets that have

1043
00:44:14,029 --> 00:44:11,640
gone into this topic but again it

1044
00:44:17,660 --> 00:44:14,039
doesn't matter about that story because

1045
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:17,670
even if there is a story about this what

1046
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:18,690
does that do

1047
00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:22,730
aside from rehashing old information or

1048
00:44:28,099 --> 00:44:24,990
by making claims that can't be

1049
00:44:29,809 --> 00:44:28,109
substantiated right because even the

1050
00:44:32,059 --> 00:44:29,819
greatest thing that come out of a story

1051
00:44:35,900 --> 00:44:32,069
like that from a mainstream outlet like

1052
00:44:39,470 --> 00:44:35,910
The Times would be to specifically name

1053
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:39,480
an organization within the US government

1054
00:44:45,289 --> 00:44:42,180
that is tasked with doing crash

1055
00:44:47,359 --> 00:44:45,299
retrievals however and I guess it's

1056
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:47,369
always possible that they could say that

1057
00:44:52,220 --> 00:44:50,400
it's for recovering extraterrestrial

1058
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:52,230
spacecraft but that's not going to

1059
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:54,450
happen in my opinion just opinion aiding

1060
00:45:00,289 --> 00:44:57,690
here but that's not gonna happen if they

1061
00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:00,299
were to name or out some crash retrieval

1062
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:03,180
program it would be very vague it would

1063
00:45:08,450 --> 00:45:04,970
talk about you know recovering

1064
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:08,460
unidentified objects or whatever and I

1065
00:45:12,109 --> 00:45:10,140
don't know about you guys but it stands

1066
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:12,119
to reason that the government has that I

1067
00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:14,450
mean they'd be silly not to

1068
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:16,190
have a group that would go out and

1069
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:18,890
recover craft that crash that they don't

1070
00:45:23,290 --> 00:45:20,960
know what it is number one to find out

1071
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:23,300
what it is and number two because we

1072
00:45:28,540 --> 00:45:25,730
want to recover technology from our

1073
00:45:30,310 --> 00:45:28,550
adversaries you know that makes sense or

1074
00:45:32,290 --> 00:45:30,320
things we're testing you're going to

1075
00:45:34,210 --> 00:45:32,300
have some group within the government

1076
00:45:36,310 --> 00:45:34,220
tasked with going out and cleaning that

1077
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:36,320
[\h__\h] up before anybody else can find out

1078
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:38,210
about it that just makes sense

1079
00:45:44,530 --> 00:45:40,880
absolutely and not even having to do

1080
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:44,540
with aliens or anything I mean of course

1081
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:47,680
like there has to be a retrieval of down

1082
00:45:52,780 --> 00:45:50,480
spacecraft aircraft no matter what it is

1083
00:45:54,940 --> 00:45:52,790
it could be it could be Russian it could

1084
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:54,950
be Chinese it doesn't matter we have to

1085
00:46:00,099 --> 00:45:57,530
retrieve it and figure out what it is um

1086
00:46:01,780 --> 00:46:00,109
so yeah I I agree with everything you

1087
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:01,790
said Jason the only thing I would add is

1088
00:46:08,109 --> 00:46:06,050
I think the the Twitter crowd as it were

1089
00:46:11,370 --> 00:46:08,119
needs to just temper their excitement

1090
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:11,380
and just let these things be as they are

1091
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:13,609
if there's gonna be a New York Times

1092
00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:16,400
article great like wait for it we don't

1093
00:46:22,569 --> 00:46:19,310
need months and months of hype to get to

1094
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:22,579
that point I think the greatest work and

1095
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:24,650
the safest way to get this information

1096
00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:28,730
out is to just drop it when it's ready

1097
00:46:32,530 --> 00:46:30,710
and when all the sources have been

1098
00:46:35,470 --> 00:46:32,540
vetted everything I mean that New York

1099
00:46:38,380 --> 00:46:35,480
Times article in 2017 took them God

1100
00:46:40,089 --> 00:46:38,390
almost half a year to write because they

1101
00:46:44,170 --> 00:46:40,099
had to vendor sources they had to make

1102
00:46:46,540 --> 00:46:44,180
sure every word was carefully there so

1103
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:46,550
yeah for for those who are claiming

1104
00:46:52,030 --> 00:46:48,890
inside sources and that an articles

1105
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:52,040
coming out and everything it's fun it's

1106
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:54,560
sexy it's whatever but at the end of the

1107
00:46:59,140 --> 00:46:57,290
day like I have learned to temper my own

1108
00:47:02,020 --> 00:46:59,150
excitement in hyping things when it

1109
00:47:04,059 --> 00:47:02,030
comes to my own work and that's it that

1110
00:47:06,849 --> 00:47:04,069
was a big thing for me so I think if

1111
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,859
other people took that into their own

1112
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:08,720
work and into their own research and

1113
00:47:11,319 --> 00:47:11,119
just let it let that chips fall as they

1114
00:47:14,109 --> 00:47:11,329
may

1115
00:47:16,990 --> 00:47:14,119
we'd all be better off now we might not

1116
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:17,000
ever get that article and those claiming

1117
00:47:21,550 --> 00:47:19,250
no article was in the works maybe there

1118
00:47:24,099 --> 00:47:21,560
was but now there isn't because of those

1119
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:24,109
that's how journalism works I mean we

1120
00:47:28,359 --> 00:47:25,760
know that that's how it works and

1121
00:47:30,819 --> 00:47:28,369
especially with a main ow

1122
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:30,829
like The Times I mean there's no

1123
00:47:35,289 --> 00:47:33,410
guarantee number one I mean you can have

1124
00:47:37,630 --> 00:47:35,299
the greatest story in the world and the

1125
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,640
works that you know they they either

1126
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:39,440
commissioned or expressed interest in

1127
00:47:44,859 --> 00:47:41,690
but when it comes down to it they might

1128
00:47:46,450 --> 00:47:44,869
say yeah pass I mean just because you're

1129
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:46,460
writing it you have no control over what

1130
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:49,249
they're going to do you certainly can't

1131
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:52,880
say oh come in this week guys but again

1132
00:47:57,759 --> 00:47:55,130
there's no need for that hype there's no

1133
00:47:59,890 --> 00:47:57,769
need for treating this like it's a

1134
00:48:02,109 --> 00:47:59,900
competition to be the first to claim

1135
00:48:05,859 --> 00:48:02,119
something the first to report on

1136
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:05,869
something and certainly not focusing on

1137
00:48:10,569 --> 00:48:08,480
who's right and who's wrong there is no

1138
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:10,579
right and wrong we're all looking for

1139
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:12,410
answers and you know taking information

1140
00:48:17,289 --> 00:48:15,529
in as it comes and doing with

1141
00:48:19,980 --> 00:48:17,299
information what we individually choose

1142
00:48:23,410 --> 00:48:19,990
to do there's a big focus now I think on

1143
00:48:26,529 --> 00:48:23,420
shaming people and forcing people to

1144
00:48:30,970 --> 00:48:26,539
have the same viewpoints about certain

1145
00:48:33,249 --> 00:48:30,980
things and that in UFOs just doesn't go

1146
00:48:35,859 --> 00:48:33,259
together that's not how the study of

1147
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:35,869
UFOs works and the study of the unknown

1148
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:38,089
the study of the strange like as you

1149
00:48:41,259 --> 00:48:39,920
should said Shane I agree with you

1150
00:48:44,229 --> 00:48:41,269
completely that's how I live my life

1151
00:48:46,210 --> 00:48:44,239
with all this is you know that your

1152
00:48:47,890 --> 00:48:46,220
views are constantly going to change

1153
00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:47,900
because you're constantly being

1154
00:48:51,220 --> 00:48:49,670
presented with new information you're

1155
00:48:53,950 --> 00:48:51,230
constantly learning new things about

1156
00:48:56,529 --> 00:48:53,960
sources from information that you once

1157
00:48:58,779 --> 00:48:56,539
considered you know high-value and

1158
00:49:00,789 --> 00:48:58,789
certain things might change that because

1159
00:49:03,460 --> 00:49:00,799
you learn new things it's constantly

1160
00:49:05,950 --> 00:49:03,470
evolving so you have to constantly let

1161
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:05,960
your your own personal views evolve with

1162
00:49:12,759 --> 00:49:09,440
that now yeah I mean as far as shaming

1163
00:49:14,349 --> 00:49:12,769
and wanting to prove people wrong I mean

1164
00:49:16,180 --> 00:49:14,359
I guess that's just an individual thing

1165
00:49:18,519 --> 00:49:16,190
and personalities are going to do that

1166
00:49:21,819 --> 00:49:18,529
and I think there's this this real

1167
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:21,829
desire this this hunger for some of

1168
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:24,170
these people making the loudest noise to

1169
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:27,170
I guess have some sort of not really

1170
00:49:32,259 --> 00:49:29,680
acceptance but they want confirmation

1171
00:49:33,489 --> 00:49:32,269
you know to support their their

1172
00:49:35,529 --> 00:49:33,499
established beliefs and what they've

1173
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:35,539
been barking to you know their friends

1174
00:49:41,570 --> 00:49:38,490
and relatives to to feel vindicated

1175
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:41,580
they might need that you know for their

1176
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:43,770
their personality to be able to go

1177
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,090
uh-huh

1178
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:47,040
see I can shove it in your face now I

1179
00:49:50,930 --> 00:49:49,260
was right all along some people need

1180
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:50,940
that it's a weird personality trait but

1181
00:49:55,580 --> 00:49:52,640
I know a lot of people have that and

1182
00:49:58,130 --> 00:49:55,590
again I don't think those that that type

1183
00:50:00,050 --> 00:49:58,140
of personality goes well with the search

1184
00:50:03,470 --> 00:50:00,060
for truth when it comes to a topic like

1185
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:03,480
UFOs so I don't know I see it doing more

1186
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:05,760
more harm than good when it comes to

1187
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:08,160
UFOs we're not saying that we don't want

1188
00:50:11,540 --> 00:50:10,050
a New York Times story about crash

1189
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:11,550
retrievals I mean I think that would be

1190
00:50:15,830 --> 00:50:13,260
pretty cool I would want to read it I

1191
00:50:17,390 --> 00:50:15,840
would want to see what what what these

1192
00:50:19,490 --> 00:50:17,400
claims are and what the sources are and

1193
00:50:22,310 --> 00:50:19,500
again I mean that helps me in my journey

1194
00:50:25,370 --> 00:50:22,320
in learning about these weird topics and

1195
00:50:27,590 --> 00:50:25,380
what's going on but you know if it

1196
00:50:30,020 --> 00:50:27,600
doesn't come out that's fine too if it

1197
00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:30,030
comes out and it says some wacky wonky

1198
00:50:33,590 --> 00:50:32,310
stuff that I can't substantiate it's not

1199
00:50:35,690 --> 00:50:33,600
gonna do anything for me and could

1200
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:35,700
potentially harm you know any serious

1201
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:38,850
research into this but in the end it's

1202
00:50:43,970 --> 00:50:41,040
just an article on a website or in a

1203
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:43,980
newspaper they come and go it's not

1204
00:50:48,740 --> 00:50:46,410
going to change the world no matter how

1205
00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:48,750
grand it is I mean look at the buzz the

1206
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:51,240
hype that was created with the 2017

1207
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:53,850
article people jumped up and down and

1208
00:50:58,490 --> 00:50:55,410
thought that was the greatest thing ever

1209
00:51:01,250 --> 00:50:58,500
and now everybody is fascinated by UFOs

1210
00:51:03,470 --> 00:51:01,260
everybody is into this topic well that's

1211
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:03,480
not necessarily true I mean there are

1212
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:05,640
still you know just as many people as

1213
00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:09,300
before who have no idea what's going on

1214
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:12,180
in the world of UFO research and UFO

1215
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,609
news they're aware of that story they're

1216
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:17,040
aware of you know certain articles that

1217
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:18,480
come up here and there they still have

1218
00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:20,850
the casual interest that they always had

1219
00:51:25,580 --> 00:51:23,310
but they haven't jumped into UFO

1220
00:51:28,250 --> 00:51:25,590
research their worldview hasn't shifted

1221
00:51:29,450 --> 00:51:28,260
their lives are just the same they just

1222
00:51:31,250 --> 00:51:29,460
thought it was cool that there was a

1223
00:51:34,310 --> 00:51:31,260
story in The New York Times about UFOs

1224
00:51:36,050 --> 00:51:34,320
and they've moved on so even if we had

1225
00:51:38,450 --> 00:51:36,060
something grand claiming that there's a

1226
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:38,460
crash retrieval system in the UFO in the

1227
00:51:43,099 --> 00:51:41,010
US government it's going to cause a

1228
00:51:44,570 --> 00:51:43,109
splash every media outlet in the

1229
00:51:46,370 --> 00:51:44,580
round-the-world is going to write

1230
00:51:48,380 --> 00:51:46,380
spin-off stories about it people are

1231
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:48,390
going to talk about it on podcast the

1232
00:51:52,099 --> 00:51:49,980
world's going to move on

1233
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:52,109
and people in the UFO community you're

1234
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:53,310
still gonna be talking about it how

1235
00:51:57,140 --> 00:51:54,330
what's the greatest thing that's ever

1236
00:52:01,099 --> 00:51:57,150
happened these things come and go that's

1237
00:52:03,260 --> 00:52:01,109
how news happens and we focus on it and

1238
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:03,270
fixate on it because this is what we're

1239
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:05,010
passionate about this is the field we're

1240
00:52:11,660 --> 00:52:07,770
in so you know we're more hyper sensual

1241
00:52:14,210 --> 00:52:11,670
hyper sensual we are we are hyper

1242
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:14,220
sensual absolutely I mean again we're

1243
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:15,900
talking personally here personally I'm

1244
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:18,450
hyper sensual but high percent hyper

1245
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:20,880
sensitive to these topics we pay more

1246
00:52:24,380 --> 00:52:22,650
attention to it it affects us more than

1247
00:52:27,590 --> 00:52:24,390
it does the general public good point

1248
00:52:31,460 --> 00:52:27,600
Jason I think that passion we're seeing

1249
00:52:33,410 --> 00:52:31,470
in the the more vocal of those unlike

1250
00:52:36,410 --> 00:52:33,420
UFO Twitter and everything that's great

1251
00:52:38,930 --> 00:52:36,420
and I think it's fantastic we're all

1252
00:52:40,700 --> 00:52:38,940
passionate about this topic - but like

1253
00:52:42,730 --> 00:52:40,710
you said the New York Times article

1254
00:52:46,609 --> 00:52:42,740
didn't change the world but it did

1255
00:52:48,859 --> 00:52:46,619
blindside a DoD at one point where they

1256
00:52:51,140 --> 00:52:48,869
had to literally backtrack and change

1257
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:51,150
their their official stance on all this

1258
00:52:55,310 --> 00:52:53,609
so hey if there is a crash retrievable

1259
00:52:57,410 --> 00:52:55,320
article coming out just let it happen

1260
00:52:59,180 --> 00:52:57,420
when it happens and it's gonna blindside

1261
00:53:01,849 --> 00:52:59,190
those people who are involved with that

1262
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:01,859
as well so again it's not gonna change

1263
00:53:06,109 --> 00:53:03,450
the world but it's going to get the

1264
00:53:10,330 --> 00:53:06,119
conversation going on every facet of

1265
00:53:15,950 --> 00:53:10,340
this topic we all find very exciting and

1266
00:53:17,660 --> 00:53:15,960
sensual in some way and sensual yeah and

1267
00:53:22,580 --> 00:53:17,670
I would just say to your point earlier

1268
00:53:26,330 --> 00:53:22,590
Jason I would rather wait for a fully

1269
00:53:33,099 --> 00:53:26,340
vetted professional journalistic article

1270
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:33,109
with facts then you know be deluge with

1271
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:36,410
supposition and opinion and all the hype

1272
00:53:40,820 --> 00:53:38,910
preceding it you know or trying to jump

1273
00:53:43,820 --> 00:53:40,830
it in other words you know all that's

1274
00:53:47,780 --> 00:53:43,830
fine and that and to me that's the world

1275
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:47,790
of social media actually that's if if we

1276
00:53:51,980 --> 00:53:49,410
didn't have social media we wouldn't see

1277
00:53:54,940 --> 00:53:51,990
90% of that right right this was no way

1278
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:54,950
for that to happen but it's like I

1279
00:53:59,960 --> 00:53:57,420
mentioned in my book and stuff about how

1280
00:54:03,170 --> 00:53:59,970
you know hoaxers they do they do a

1281
00:54:03,830 --> 00:54:03,180
disservice to us all and I think in a

1282
00:54:05,900 --> 00:54:03,840
way this

1283
00:54:08,780 --> 00:54:05,910
of speculation does a disservice to us

1284
00:54:11,450 --> 00:54:08,790
as well because you know it um it

1285
00:54:14,210 --> 00:54:11,460
muddies the water and it kind of takes

1286
00:54:16,610 --> 00:54:14,220
away credibility and and for me now you

1287
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:16,620
mentioned it Jason I'm on a search for

1288
00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:19,050
truth you know I want to know the truth

1289
00:54:25,970 --> 00:54:22,260
I don't want you know to cloud my mind

1290
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:25,980
or my judgment my opinion you know with

1291
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:27,810
a bunch of speculation that ends up

1292
00:54:33,650 --> 00:54:30,930
being completely wrong or off-base or

1293
00:54:35,660 --> 00:54:33,660
any of that so I I think it's wise to

1294
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:35,670
just hold back a little bit let things

1295
00:54:42,140 --> 00:54:38,610
play out and see what really is real

1296
00:54:44,990 --> 00:54:42,150
versus all the hype stuff so and and I

1297
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:45,000
get it I mean it is it is a competition

1298
00:54:52,610 --> 00:54:48,450
in some regards but you know and they're

1299
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:52,620
obviously genuinely sincere enthusiastic

1300
00:54:57,170 --> 00:54:54,960
people doing this research and stuff yes

1301
00:54:59,320 --> 00:54:57,180
absolutely and I appreciate all that I

1302
00:55:02,300 --> 00:54:59,330
don't I don't mean to diminish them but

1303
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:02,310
what I'm just saying is we get we want

1304
00:55:07,580 --> 00:55:04,410
to we want facts and we don't want just

1305
00:55:09,770 --> 00:55:07,590
you know unsubstantiated stuff we want

1306
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:09,780
the real deal we want we want the truth

1307
00:55:14,270 --> 00:55:12,570
so and that and that's why I said

1308
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:14,280
earlier just taking everything with the

1309
00:55:18,350 --> 00:55:16,290
grain of salt because you know there's a

1310
00:55:20,210 --> 00:55:18,360
lot of proclamations that we know this

1311
00:55:23,150 --> 00:55:20,220
and that and blah blah blah and it

1312
00:55:24,590 --> 00:55:23,160
doesn't happen and if if you if you put

1313
00:55:26,450 --> 00:55:24,600
all your eggs in that basket you're

1314
00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:26,460
gonna be disappointed and who knows I

1315
00:55:30,110 --> 00:55:28,200
bet you there's been people who have

1316
00:55:32,180 --> 00:55:30,120
been disappointed right out of ufology

1317
00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:32,190
because it you know it didn't turn out

1318
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:33,720
to be what they thought because they

1319
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:35,910
were basing everything on you know a

1320
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:38,250
certain book or of line of thinking or

1321
00:55:43,580 --> 00:55:40,410
some kind of concept that eventually

1322
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:43,590
falls out of favor or you know it's

1323
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:45,930
proven untrue and then you know that

1324
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:47,970
would be a real shame for someone so I

1325
00:55:53,420 --> 00:55:50,370
just think it's responsible to be

1326
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:53,430
careful and to use good judgment and let

1327
00:55:58,790 --> 00:55:55,770
let the truth come out and then then get

1328
00:56:00,440 --> 00:55:58,800
excited then get hyped yeah and this is

1329
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:00,450
like I said I mean this this isn't a

1330
00:56:06,890 --> 00:56:03,680
field this isn't a hobby for people or

1331
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:06,900
you know a focus of study for anybody

1332
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,280
who does not have patience I mean UFOs

1333
00:56:15,530 --> 00:56:13,440
are slow you know let me wait in 75

1334
00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:15,540
years you know what's what's another

1335
00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:17,550
year a couple years

1336
00:56:23,330 --> 00:56:20,310
you know there's no rush the information

1337
00:56:26,210 --> 00:56:23,340
will come if it's coming and even when

1338
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:26,220
that information comes you're not gonna

1339
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:27,930
be satisfied because they're gonna be

1340
00:56:31,820 --> 00:56:29,970
more questions and you're gonna be

1341
00:56:34,970 --> 00:56:31,830
waiting on additional information it's

1342
00:56:36,650 --> 00:56:34,980
it's an endless endless quest so if

1343
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:36,660
you're not ready for that you know it's

1344
00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:38,970
time to eject I think but you got to

1345
00:56:43,010 --> 00:56:40,680
strap in for the for the long haul with

1346
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:43,020
us and understand that it requires a lot

1347
00:56:48,380 --> 00:56:45,170
of patience it's very unfulfilling

1348
00:56:51,350 --> 00:56:48,390
unsatisfying and frustrating that's what

1349
00:56:55,070 --> 00:56:51,360
UFO research is why do we do this to

1350
00:56:57,710 --> 00:56:55,080
ourselves gentlemen because we like we

1351
00:57:00,020 --> 00:56:57,720
like the journey yeah it is it's all

1352
00:57:02,690 --> 00:57:00,030
about the journey we always you know

1353
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:02,700
every every every few months we threaten

1354
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:04,530
that we're we're ready to quit UFOs

1355
00:57:09,500 --> 00:57:06,810
we're done with UFOs can't do it anymore

1356
00:57:11,570 --> 00:57:09,510
why so stressful so frustrating why do

1357
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,580
we do this but it always pulls us back

1358
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:13,200
in and that's because UFOs are so

1359
00:57:32,210 --> 00:57:30,810
essential element 115 well citizens

1360
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:32,220
that's gonna do it for this episode you

1361
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:33,930
can find more episodes of unknown on all

1362
00:57:37,850 --> 00:57:35,730
the major platforms like Apple podcasts

1363
00:57:39,770 --> 00:57:37,860
google podcasts stitcher Pandora and I

1364
00:57:41,330 --> 00:57:39,780
Heart Radio subscribe on your favorite

1365
00:57:43,250 --> 00:57:41,340
podcast platforms here notified when we

1366
00:57:44,690 --> 00:57:43,260
published new episodes and it would be

1367
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:44,700
awesome if you left a positive review

1368
00:57:48,260 --> 00:57:46,650
for the show too you can always find

1369
00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:48,270
this show and our other shows at rogue

1370
00:57:52,430 --> 00:57:50,430
planet TV because unknown is a rogue

1371
00:57:54,830 --> 00:57:52,440
planet production row planet to be is

1372
00:57:56,090 --> 00:57:54,840
your home for all this strange thanks

1373
00:57:58,070 --> 00:57:56,100
again for hanging out with us today I'm

1374
00:57:59,660 --> 00:57:58,080
Jason McClellan do us a favor friends

1375
00:58:01,400 --> 00:57:59,670
always treat the UFO subject with the

1376
00:58:03,830 --> 00:58:01,410
cautious and responsible skepticism it

1377
00:58:06,020 --> 00:58:03,840
deserves question everything have the

1378
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:06,030
courage to form your own opinions keep

1379
00:58:09,740 --> 00:58:08,130
truth as the focus of your quest even if

1380
00:58:12,550 --> 00:58:09,750
the truth conflicts with your opinions